Western Tolerance?

milkboys Stories 46 Comments

When Westerners talk about the differences between them and people  from other countries some topics seem to come up almost always. The tolerance of the Western world for example  is something we just love to brag about. But how tolerant are we really? The Get Data blog took a look at the numbers from an American perspective.

Where does the American Public Stand on Racism?

The World Values Survey is an association of social scientists from around the world that gather data on human values, political and social life, as well as a host of other social statistics.  Using the WVS data, we’ll present a brief analysis of tolerance, racism and xenophobia in the Western world.

The below figure shows the number of respondents by country that affirm the following positions. All questions began with, ‘Would not like to have as neighbours:’ and ends with the y-axis category.  For example the first survey question was, ‘Would not like to have as neighbours: Different Race’ and 5.6% of American affirmed with this statement.

tolerance01

Even within the Western world huge differences between neighbouring countries can be observed. While only 3.5% of the respondents from Sweden had a negative view on immigrants, 21.5% of Germans did.

Tolerance towards Homosexuality in the US

As we can see in the below figures, which again uses WVS data, the United States ranks among the most tolerant countries towards homosexuality.   Still, more than 24%, almost a quarter, of Americans believe homosexuality is never justifiable and only 21.5% believe homosexuality is always justifiable with similarly low numbers found in countries like Germany compared to 60% of Swedes.

 

Comments 46

  1. “Homosexuality is never justifiable”

    Any surprise that the vast majority of the “top” half of that last chart are islam states and most of the next 25% or so are religious states/influenced?

    “But, but, MY religion is tolerant!”

    Yeah, right … start learning what political correct bullshit is all about. The ONLY reason they’re “tolerant” is for those donations.

    Get ready for the next wave of civil rights — atheists, agnostics and all the rest of the “nones”. It’s coming sooner than you think. Proof? Our 2016 election. Any of you seriously think Trump isn’t at least agnostic — and Sanders as well? Get real.

    1. Sorry the the “top” is mostly christian countries. It is far too easy to say that the religion is the only reason for homophobia. It is a part of it sometimes a big part but in the end the religion is just a part of society.

      The world would not change if the religion disappear.

      1. “Sorry the the “top” is mostly christian countries.”

        No, they’re not. The vast majority of the “top” ARE MUSLIM CONTROLLED. While your’e correct on a FEW of them, those that are christian are MOSTLY EVANGELICAL — which, for homosexuality, ARE THE SAME NON-TOLERANCE. Here are the MUSLIM COUNTRIES IN THE “TOP HALF:”

        Quatar
        Azerbajian
        Tunisia
        Ghana (12%)
        Jordan
        Morocco
        Turkey
        Palestine
        Kyrgyzstan
        Kazakhstan
        Pakistan
        Nigeria
        Rwanda
        Malaysia
        Yemen
        Belarius
        Algeria
        Ukraine

        “The world would not change if the religion disappear.”

        You couldn’t have made a more stupid statement than that. Within 10 years, if islam isn’t CONTROLLED by the WEST, we will be ASS-DEEP IN WORLD WAR III.

        1. Ukraine and Belarus are Muslim countries? Since when? In Belarus, the number of Muslims is 0.2-0.5% of the population. In Ukraine, a percentage is slightly higher – because of the Crimean Tatars.

          1. You’re right … I read those 2 incorrectly. So? It’s only 2 in that list of high percentages of muslims. It doesn’t detract from what I stated.

    2. The situation is more complex than Penboy is stating.

      To put it bluntly, there is more homosexuality going on in some Islamic countries than there is in the rest of the world. They are however (statistically speaking) mostly not “homosexually” identified, and most would not correspond to the interests of “gay” identified men in the west. Of course, some would – probably about as many as in the west, though they are obligated by social duty to get married – which is, by the way, not considered an expression of “heterosexuality”, which is mostly a modern western construct that beats the boy-loving qualities out of men by the sheer terror of angry screaming feminists and Bible-thumping, guilt-ridden men like George Rekers (who take rent-boys on holiday to “bring them God” and “hoist their luggage”, ahem).

      Within Islamic cultures, men can have sex with men or with boys, in private, because that is not really a concern for other people. Mostly, the “homosexuality” in these cultures is between a boy and an older boy, or a boy and a man. Since the 1970s, or more broadly since the 1920s, the US, British and Russians influenced some of these cultures in a way that caused the hard right to become more zealous than ever, and co-opted British sexual mores into Islamic culture, resulting in the appearance of widespread homophobia. It is us which put them out of balance. Joseph Massad wrote about this in his admittedly somewhat schizophrenic book, “Desiring Arabs.”

      And about eroticism towards BOYS (and this is milkBOYS), the least “homophobic” nations are also amont the most against it. This week Corey Feldman wants us all to bow down to bow down to his victimhood because some man made an advance on him when he was a teenager. Poor baby! So I would not call western cultures “tolerant”, they are every bit as rotten as any other culture on this planet.

      1. “To put it bluntly, there is more homosexuality going on in some Islamic countries than there is in the rest of the world.”

        Yes there is. But, I was addressing the article which represents the political polls and how it’s addressed PUBLICLY. I think we all know that there is a lot more homosexuality going on “under the covers” of any government/society.

        And, I was addressing the religious ideals/policies of that poll. And, re: the polls, I am correct.

        1. There is *not* a lot more homosexuality going on ‘under the covers’ in the United States.

          There is far less than there was in the earlier part of the 20th century. The reason for that lies somewhere in the dissolution of gender roles, the end of gender segregation, the introduction of sexual identity politics (gay/straight).

          Homosexuality used to be well known to many adolescent boys, but as soon as it became “gay”, most of this activity largely stopped (except among those very few who are gay- or bi-identified).

          1. “There is far less than there was in the earlier part of the 20th century.”

            We’ve had this argument before, and you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Regarding this, you don’t know what you’re talking about. All you want to do is harp on the idea of feminism, which is mostly bullshit (as far as 2 boys between the ages of 10 and 17 that want to express themselves sexually toward each other).

            Not only is there “MORE” homosexuality now than when you said, there will be even “more” in the decades to come (in the USA).

            Now, to clarify “more” — it’s not that there are “more actions”, but in reality, the same actions that would have been “before” are simply now more in the OPEN (at least toward each other if not “publicly”).

            And now with same-sex marriage legal everywhere (USA), there will be even more signs of same-sex romances — by being more in the open/public.

          2. “Homosexuality used to be well known to many adolescent boys, but as soon as it became ‘gay’, most of this activity largely stopped”

            No it didn’t. It just went “underground.”

            Do you even know WHY the term “gay” is used for homosexuality? I suspect you don’t.

          3. I’m not wrong, I’m basing what I’m saying on studies. Sorry that the data doesn’t meet your expectations, but in the world of science, that happens. People found out the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth, and they took it in stride. But you’re having a tough time with this one.

            I happen to have access to more information than you have. Compare the Kinsey study with the Laumann study, you will see, but anyways you don’t have time for that.

            More boys making an “open display” of same-sex romance or sex does not have anything to do with what percentage of young males are having same-sex experiences. In fact, the two are inversely correlated, and I suggested a plausible explanation for that.

      2. “I’m not wrong,” … Yes, you are.

        “I’m basing what I’m saying on studies.” No, you’re basing it on feminist bullshit.

        “Sorry that the data doesn’t meet your expectations,” It’s not my “expectations,” it’s my experience.

        “But you’re having a tough time with this one.”… No, you are.

        “I happen to have access to more information than you have.” No, you don’t … you just have access to more feminist bullshit.

        “More boys making an ‘open display’ of same-sex romance or sex does not have anything to do with what percentage of young males are having same-sex experiences.”

        Yes it does, and it’s very psychological. Not every instance, to be sure, but on the whole, it’s indicative. When you see 2 13-y.o.’s kissing each other “publicly” in school or on school grounds or at the malls or movies, it’s a pretty safe assumption they are having some type of sex, even if it’s nothing more than mutual masturbation (and, btw, kissing is considered sexual — foreplay).

        Not ALL sexual activity is intercourse or fellatio …. it can be as simple as masturbation, fondling or even just kissing.

        You are relying on “studies” from feminist sources (for no other purpose than to further their “personal” agenda). I’m relying on experience and what I see around me every day. Not only that, but social media also bears out exactly what I’ve been saying.

        1. Kinsey and Laumann feminists? Hah! You think your personal experience is enough to tell you what happened before you were born? You’re deluding yourself.

          In any case, social media cannot be used to prove anything about whether there is more same-sex sexual activity now than in the early part of the 20th century.

      3. “Kinsey and Laumann feminists?”

        I didn’t name them specifically. Only that you continue to spout that our entire culture/sub-culture of sexual mores are based totally on feminism. You couldn’t be further from the truth. Does feminism have some influence? Yes, of course, but not nearly the amount that you keep espousing.

        And Kinsey? He is so outdated today … hell, he was outdated even in the 1970s. He just brought the subject more into the public eye which we can thank him for. American homosexuals didn not number only about 1-2% back then and certainly not today. Even back then, it was more than 10% as it not only is today, but I would place the number much closer to 15% if not even higher.

        Again! You seem to never understand, that most gays and bisexuals that lean toward gay, are never counted properly because so many will not respond to public polls (even by universities). And so many lesbians are even more in the closet. And what about transgenders? They were considered to be almost nothing back then and little more so now. No matter how open gays are in America (and most countries), there will be a huge number that won’t trust their very personal information to government or public sources when not just jobs, but even family statuses are “on the line.”

        It will take a few more decades for any count to be even close to being “accurate.”

  2. “While only 3.5% of the respondents from Sweden had a negative view on immigrants, 21.5% of Germans did.

    Hmmm. I wonder WHY that is in Germany? Oh, yes …. ONE WORD: ISLAM. In that chart, look at all those countries that surround the islam-infested war areas. Hell, even TURKEY doesn’t want those ISIS-infested immigrants — and that’s saying a whole lot!

  3. Methinks the higher numbers of intolerance for immigrants in most nations are not just sane, but positive. Too often, immigrants attempt to influence their new host culture with elements from the failed or dangerous culture they fled from. Too often, they ask for assorted accommodations for this or that, and far too often they ask for welfare. Too often they make no determined effort to learn the language of their new country, and will for even 2 generations, speak their native language in their homes and among themselves. They offend by wearing their original native dress. They even display the flag of their former homeland. Screw that.

    Prejudice against immigrants is an important encouragement for them to abandon everything they grew up with and fully assimilate into the culture of their adopted homeland. Unwitting tolerance only encourages multi-culturalism, fragmentation, polarization, and living apart in dedicated ghettos. And that fosters real discrimination -the kind that matters – in housing, employment, education, and political participation. (Sweden’s acceptance of immigrants is not sophisticated – it’s suicidal.) If you want to emigrate for any reason, learn to shake the hand that greets you, not bite it. Assimilate completely. Be a wealth creator, not a wealth consumer. And never, ever, try to change any of the ways of the locals. When in Rome …

    1. It’s not really true that most immigrants don’t learn the local language. Speaking a different language at home also is not really a good marker of assimilation.

      But you seem to forget that we, the country which along with Britain, plundered middle eastern oil to fuel our own economies, exported our own homosexual neuroses to Islamic cultures which previously had a way to handle homosexuality (and often, to celebrate it). Some might not want to assimilate into American or European cultures now, but how much worse is that than what we did to them, being cultural imperialist colonialists?

      1. “But you seem to forget that we, the country which along with Britain, plundered middle eastern oil to fuel our own economies,”

        You’re using the very same regressive bullshit that so many use attacking us for the RESULTS of the 2nd Iraq War.

        Make no mistake, going into Iraq (2003) was a colossal mistake by a stupid President. I would never argue that point. But, from the point of toppling the statue of Hussein to the present, it is not America’s fault. No, it’s the complete result of the Iraqi people who put [sectarian] religion above their own country.

        They would not be in the position they are now if they had used their energies to rebuild their country’s infrastructure, education, health and culture (minus that fucked up stupid religion). America didn’t “create” ISIS — THEY DID.

        And it’s the very same with sexual mores and homosexuality. They didn’t have to “follow GB and USA”, but they insist on using their religious books to determine their lives.

        1. I was speaking to the general history, beginning around 1890s with the establishment of Anglo-American oil interests in the region, not the US Iraq war. [The evidence does not suggest to me that the Iraq war had much of anything to do with oil.] Anyways the introduction of western homophobia began much earlier than the US – went back to before Jean Chardin the Frenchman in the 17th century.

    2. @Horselips
      Excellent post!
      “Unwitting tolerance only encourages multi-culturalism, fragmentation, polarization, and living apart in dedicated ghettos. And that fosters real discrimination -the kind that matters – in housing, employment, education, and political participation. (Sweden’s acceptance of immigrants is not sophisticated – it’s suicidal.) If you want to emigrate for any reason, learn to shake the hand that greets you, not bite it.”

      “Sweden is now number two on the global list of rape countries. According to a survey from 2010, Sweden, with 53.2 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants, is surpassed only by tiny Lesotho in Southern Africa, with 91.6 rapes per 100,000 inhabitants.”
      -And it’s worse now…

      ~Well worth taking a look at:
      http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

      1. Don’t trust rape statistics without looking extremely hard at where it came from.

        Many studies confuse “unwanted” sex with rape. They are not the same exact thing. Sex involving force or threats is relatively rare.

        I can show you American studies which say there is as much “unwanted” sex among men (“assaulted” by women) as among women by men. It’s ridiculous, because men sometimes go along with having sex when they’re not in the mood, and it gets put in there as an “unwanted sex” statistic. That is the result of feminism moving the goalposts, in order to generate more “victims” by which their movement keeps gaining politcal power.

      2. Post
        Author

        Rape statistics are, for the most part, completely useless.

        The vast majority of rapes gets never reported so these statistics don’t show you how much rape is going on in a country but how often rape gets reported.

        Sweden doesn’t have a higher rate of rape than any other Western country, they just have a very high report rate because the stigma that you have in other countries associated with it (e.g. Japan, hence their low report rate) doesn’t exist here.

        Alas people love to use idiotic datasets like these to justify their racism.

        If you want to know what the up- and downsides of immigration are just look at history, If you do it right it will enrich your culture and come with enormous benefits for everyone involved.

        The only cases of immigration ending in absolute disaster are the ones of European colonialism which makes it a bit ironic that Americans and Europeans are the ones whining about immigration now.

        1. @Josh/milkboys
          “Rape statistics are, for the most part, completely useless.”

          ~You can candy coat this anyway you want but the reality is your country’s rape stats rose after the increase of immigrants into your country and not just the most recent influx of refugees either. Only difference now is the world is hearing more about what’s actually occurring in your country and others that have opened their borders a little too wide to these fleeing ‘refugees’.
          These rape statistics have less to do with increased reporting and more to do with the increase of innocent Swedish victims!
          I specifically chose an article that gave a complete view of the situation even if slightly biased it was comprehensive in scope even going back to 1975.
          In no way do I fault the Swedes for this travesty save for those who say the problem doesn’t exist or that it’s blown out of proportion. When you have women and children being attacked in public pools, malls, and on their own streets while the government pats the perpetrators on the wrist or calls it own citizens too provocative in their dress, then you have a problem. Whether you admit it or not it’s up to your fellow citizens to say enough is enough and start clamping down on those who are abusing your own people and show them the door from whence they came.

        2. >The only cases of immigration ending in absolute disaster are the ones of European colonialism which makes it a bit ironic that Americans and Europeans are the ones whining about immigration now.

          This is getting close to my point, thank you…

      3. Normally, the wealthy Gulf Arabs should at least take care of the Sunni Muslims among these refugees/migrants, since they still have enough money for building skyscrapers, purchasing prestigious football clubs in England & Spain or other silly stuff, but hey ……. political correct people like to ignore that and rather complain about Europeans, who don’t believe that these illegal immigrants will really “enrich” their countries. At the same time, the aforementioned Gulf Arabs are masturbating to their wet dream of Eurabia, while they give money to terror groups and anything that could destabilize other states.

        Another thing are obviously adult men in asylum centers, who pretend to be minors as that status grants them more benefits:
        https://acidmuncher.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/the-refugee-children-of-sweden/
        http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=6252767
        https://toklandet.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/mot-17-ariga-ramish/
        http://www.informationskriget.se/2015/11/30/afghanska-man-paras-ihop-med-gymnasieflickor-i-nytt-offentligstott-projekt/

        1. @Erfulch:

          re: https://acidmuncher.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/the-refugee-children-of-sweden/

          I could only read this one (English), but I hope the others you posted read pretty much the same thing about these lying immigrants. All muslims are liars (as are all christians and jews) — how else can they perpetuate their ignorant religion?

          It’s already been proven that the disaster in France was attributed to ISIS “immigrants” and those from Belgium which I’m guessing don’t need special papers to travel throughout Western Europe.

          Thanks for that and showing proof of what’s really going on (at least a small window of it).

    3. Yes, just ask the native population of the Americas how their initial welcome of immigrants turned to fear, loathing and their genocide, as more and more came in, bringing disease and massacres, along with treaty breaking and other forms of betrayal. Of course most Americans (in both the north and south of that continent (hemisphere?) choose to mis-remember that they have only been there for a relatively few generations.
      Oh, and we all came form Africa originally, so I guess we all share the blame at some level (again, ask the cro-magnon; oh we can’t cos we wiped them out too).
      Get over it, immigration has been and always will be part of the human condition. Some of us are aiming for the stars, some of us just want to keep others out of own few square yards/meters.

  4. Sorry Devil but you’re just wrong. As much as you want to blame refugees, the facts just aren’t on your side:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

    From the article:

    On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place than these other countries.
    But that is a misconception, according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. She says you cannot compare countries’ records, because police procedures and legal definitions vary widely.
    “In Sweden there has been this ambition explicitly to record every case of sexual violence separately, to make it visible in the statistics,” she says.
    “So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record.”

    The thing is, the number of reported rapes has been going up in Sweden – it’s almost trebled in just the last seven years. In 2003, about 2,200 offences were reported by the police, compared to nearly 6,000 in 2010.

    But Klara Selin says the statistics don’t represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked.

    So exactly what Josh said.

    1. @Julian
      ~I have no intention of going tit for tat furnishing multiple links of news reports from the past year or two concerning male immigrant’s sexual or physical attacks on Swedish women and children, including their own fellow refugees while having little fear of repercussions from their generous supportive hosts.
      I did not bring the subject up to slam Sweden or any of the other countries who charitably opened their borders to this never ending siege but I honestly believe that the turmoil from all this will far outweigh any benefits to the host countries either now or in the future and in fact may result in even worse occurrences.

  5. The comments on Milkboys have really become toxic. Far from the “without worrying about prejudices” space this site is supposed to be, it now reeks of racism, islamophobia, anti-feminism, and more simply put, anti anything that is not white, male, and gay.

    Even YouTube comments are better now. This is a new low.

    1. I think a post titled “Western Tolerance?” kind of invited this display. But if you can’t handle people who think differently from you, maybe you should go find your nearest campus “safe space”.

      Given the history of feminism in connection with boyhood, and in relation to erotic attraction between men and boys, any site celebrating the love of boys *should* tolerate a negative view of feminism. Being against men’s love of boys was one of the six core principles of the National Organization for Women in 1980.

    2. Quote:> “…it now reeks of racism, islamophobia, anti-feminism, and more simply put, anti anything that is not white, male, and gay.”

      My goodness, you’ve played practically every card in the progressive deck. You seem to be shocked! SHOCKED! that queers don’t all march to the same drummer. Free speech, freedom of thought, conscience and association is a “new low?”

      Sorry if some of the comments here have driven your political- correctness needle right off the dial. Truth be told, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Wait until I stir the boiling pot with my thoughts on God and religion, transgenders, and gun control. And wait until the other members here kick my ass and eat my lunch over that stuff. Good times, dude.

      Fasten your seatbelt, Lurker, it’s going to be a wild ride.

      1. Truth be told, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Wait until I stir the boiling pot with my thoughts on God and religion, transgenders, and gun control. And wait until the other members here kick my ass and eat my lunch over that stuff. Good times, dude.

        That had me laughing. :-)

        1. “That had me laughing. :-) ”

          Me as well. :) I snorted my coffee and broke out laughing. Sometimes Horseface sums things up very succinctly . Hell, if everyone agreed on every single issue, the place would be boring. A little humour at times is a welcome addition. :-D

    3. “it now reeks of racism, islamophobia, …”

      Islamophobia? What’s that? Let me open up my copy of Intelligent Urban Dictionary:

      islamophobia: An intense fear of learning the correct interpretation of the socio-political ideology called “islam” [submit / submission] and how regressives associate the “brownness” of the Arabian, Middle East and North African culture and feel a need to classify it as “racism” which isn’t a separate human race at all. In other words, a non-word “word.”

      Now, off to your mommy as soon as possible so she can comfort and offer you some warm [goat’s] milk.

    4. @Disappointed Lurker
      “Even YouTube comments are better now. This is a new low.” ~Actually ‘BREAK’ comments are the truly the worst by far.
      ❦Regarding how things may roll at milkboys…
      The best way to effect a change here is for more lurkers like yourself to actually comment rather than remaining silent. I lurked at mb’s for over a year before finally posting and though sometimes it was rough it eventually became an important part of my day that I came to value. Especially when seeing comments from those I liked but not necessarily of like mind! Even best friends can disagree or have conflicting opinions, sometimes even for the same reason as here but they usually remain friends.
      Do be a new voice here, we can always use fresh thoughts to spark things up at milkboys, maybe now more may comment. The more the merrier!
      😍Welcome Disappointed Lurker

  6. I must say that one good thing has come from the current wave of postmodern, poststructuralist, feminist, critical race theoretical, critical whiteness studying, Othering, social scientific hogwash: I’ve become almost completely certain that all of this is a computer simulation. It doesn’t even feel remotely real any longer. I just don’t understand the purpose of this game.

      1. I wonder what the correlation between “liberal” thinking and insanity says about the Programmers Above. Being “liberal” used to mean a person was rational; why did They change things? Has there been a fight about who’s to run the simulation?

        1. Basically, I think it’s this:

          The American Left always was the counteracting force against the “tough on crime” law-and-order tendencies of the American Right. When women came into the workforce, at the same time they wanted increased protections which were of a “tough on crime” nature, i.e. conservative. This took the American Left and made them in many respects into an adjunct of the American Right. They needed this “conservatization” of the Left because without that particular way of slicing the population up, you can’t get 50/50 in each party, and a two-party country needs a 50/50 split in order to maintain stability and the illusion of democracy.

          1. You’re talking about politics. I’m talking about the insanity of college students studying social science (in the United States you could call them “Bernie Sanders liberals”, but “mad fascists” works too).
            Imagine a world where this has become standard behaviour:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3hQlskyVBQ

  7. @sri:
    “I’m talking about the insanity of college students studying social science (in the United States you could call them ‘Bernie Sanders liberals’, but mad fascists works too).”

    You’ve made very similar comments in the past. Which is why you’re not to be taken seriously — you’re only agenda is to demonize Americans as a cover for your jealousy of America — what it stands for — the Constitution and all that.

    Please, stop bringing “war” into the conversation when you don’t understand even the simplest of democratic ideas. You just make yourself appear even more ignorant of the world social orders.

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